My havruta, Binyamin Z, and I are learning Hulin because it's the talmudic basis of what we are learning in 318 of the Shulhan Arukh.
The mishna says, "HaShohet B'Shabbat u'v'Yom HaKippurim af al pi she'mit'hayev b'naphsho Sh'hita K'sheira" (emphasis added) -- "one who slaughters on Shabbat and Yom Kippur, even though he has violated a capital crime, the slaughter[ed animal] is kosher".
The Gemara begins by telling us that Rav Huna says that Rav says that you can't eat the meat on Shabbat itself. This, the Gemara says, is based on a breita (Mishneic literature not included in the Mishna) about Rabi Yehuda.
After mentioning two other breitot (plural of breita), the Gemara mentions a breita about a mahloket (Tora argument) between Rabi Meir, Rabi Yehuda and Rabi Yohanan HaSandler.
In our shiur (Pirchei Shoshanim Hilchot Shabbat Volume 1 Shiur 18 has a chart of the mahloket:
| //////////// | B'Shogeg | B'Mezid | ||
| //////////// | For the cook | For others | For the cook | For others |
| R' Meir | Muter on Shabbat | Muter on Shabbat | Muter after Shabbat | Muter after Shabbat |
| R' Yehuda | Muter after Shabbat | Muter after Shabbat | Ossur forever | Muter after Shabbat |
| R' Yohanan HaSandler | Ossur forever | Muter after Shabbat | Ossur forever | Ossur forever |
There was only one problem with this -- according to the breita, the different opinions went like this:
| R' Meir | B'Shogeg Yokhal | B'Mezid Lo Yokhal | ||
| R' Yehuda | B'Shogeg Yokhal B'Motzei Shabbat | B'Mezid Lo Yokhal Olamit | ||
| R' Yohanan HaSandler | B'Shogeg Yokhal B'Motzei Shabbat l'aherim | B'Shogeg Lo Yokhal lo | B'Mezid Lo Yokhal l'aherim | B'Mezid Lo Yokhal lo |
R' Meir seems only concerned with "Shogeg" versus "Mezid". R' Yehuda adds the element of when -- after Shabbat or never. R' Yohanan the Sandler adds the element of "the one who cooks" versus "others".
Back to the opinion of Rav at the beginning of the gemara (on daf yod daled amud aleph), the Gemara tries to figure out which of the three opinions of the breita Rav was following. At one point, they say that he was talking about the opinion of R' Yehuda, but in order to make things fit, the Gemara needs to interpret the Mishna as referring to "Shogeg" when it clearly needs to be referring to "Mezid" since one isn't hayav for the death penalty if it isn't B'Mezid with Hatra'a (warning).
I wondered (out loud) whether the Rabbis in this breita were sitting together discussing this in one Yeshiva or did the "recorder" (the person who recorded this mahloket) go to three different Yeshivot and ask three different people the same question with different results, and taking different necessary information into account.
According to the shiur, Tosefot and the Gra pasken like R' Meir and the Tur,the Gaonim, the Tur, the Rif, the Rambam, the Rosh, and the Ramban all pasken according to the opinion of R' Yehuda.
Our next step (for next week) will be to analyze Rashi, who analyzed the second table (the one of the breita) to come up with the table from the shiur, and Tosefot, to get a better handle on how the opinion in the breita turned into the three opinions of the shiur.
In listing those Rishonim who pasken according to Rabbi Yehuda, you repeat several.
ReplyDeleteIt seems to me emminently clear from the quoted shitot in the Baraita how one arrived at the first chart. The exception is the shita of Rabbi Meir in the case of mezid. "Lo yochal" does not tell us when (if ever) one may eat the food, only that there is some time when one may not. However, there may be reason to reach the conclusion that R' Meir is referring to on Shabbat, and immediately thereafter one may eat the food. More problematic is Rabbi Yehuda's mezid, where the Pirchei Shoshanim chart distinguishes between the cook & others, but the baraita does not explicitly distinguish.
Rabbi Meir & Rabbi Yehuda were contemporaries and students of Rabbi Akiva, so they may well have sat together & discussed this issue. I assume R' Yochanan haSandlar was also a contemporary, but do not know that to be true.